Sunday, November 8, 2009

Can Somebody Please Explain This to Me?

Audacity of Logic is based upon just that, Logic, so it is through those eyes that I sincerely ask this question:  How can you call yourself a Christian and vote for the Democrats?  How can you stand in church on Sunday morning and proclaim those values and on Tuesday completely abandon them at the ballot box?  Please someone explain this to me so that I can understand.

This is an open invitation to all who proclaim the Lord Jesus as their Savior and have been Born Again and washed in the Blood.  I am not talking to you Christians in name only (I know what you are all about and don't need you to explain how you do what you do.)  I am talking to the true believers and by this I mean you accept the inerrancy of the Scriptures, you believe it is the literal word of God, you believe that the only way to the Father is through the Son, you believe that Jesus was an actual breathing man, incarnate of God, who was crucified for your sins, died and was buried and on the 3rd day rose again, you believe He is coming back again for his church.  You have said the sinner's prayer and felt the Holy Spirit come to live inside you.  You KNOW that Jesus is real because you feel him everyday.  If you reject any of the above, I am not talking to you.

How do you vote for a party that promotes abortion?
How do you vote for a party that makes sure their is a Planned Parenthood on every corner in the poor areas?
How do you vote for a party that says government is the provider not the Lord?
How do you vote for a party that enslaves the population with endless welfare checks?
How do you vote for a party that says that your liberties and freedom come from the government and not God?
How do you vote for a party that will block abstience courses in school and yet hand out condoms?
How do you vote for a party that steals money from its people making it harder and harder to support the work of the kingdom?
How do you raise your hand in praise to the Father of Life and then applaud wildly for a President who displays all of the characteristics of someone with the spirit of anti-christ upon them?
How do you ignore every value inside of yourself and vote for a party that hold blacks in such disdain they feel they can not vote without labels behind candidates names?
How do you vote for a party that hates Israel?
How do you vote for a party that thinks it can reason with the wild Ishmaelites?
How do you vote for a party that would look the other way at child molestation, while embracing the sin of Sodomy?
How do you pull a straight Democratic ticket and sleep at night?

Brothers and Sisters, how?


  1. I thought this blog was for political discourse,not a revival meeting. I'm outta here.

  2. If it were a revival meeting, you'd know it. This is just a testament to our Judeo-Christian values that this country was founded on, which is political discourse in a founding fathers view. Thanks for visiting...

  3. Obviously, anonymous does not grasp the history of our great nation, or he/she simply prefers to deny it. Faith and political issues are not mutually exclusive. For evidence of this check the key documents that formed our nation and our laws, or the separate and individual writings and recordings of the Founders and Framers. What they believed played a key and the largest role in exactly what kind of government they formed.

    Our faith and what we believe (or do not believe) do (should) impact how we view various political issues and how we vote. Are we to check our beliefs at the door of the courthouse or polling place? The Founders did not. And if you are going to argue that some of the Founders were not men of faith please come at me with more than "Mr. Jefferson may have been an Agnostic." 55 other patriots other than Mr. Jefferson signed the Declaration of Independence, and helped write our Constitution.

    Additionally, assuming (incorrectly) that faith is totally separate from politics does not amount to a hill of beans in this case because this blog (which yours truly helped to create) does not have a set of rules or laws that prohibit mentioning religious beliefs, even if ANONYMOUS might wish it so.

    Mr./Mrs./Miss ANONYMOUS, how about actually debating the gutsy and thoughtful post by Dolley?

    BTW, read my biography to learn about my faith.

  4. Define SOdomy for me please... I've read many definitions, but they seem to include basically everything other than straight man on top sex. If that is the case then I am an unrepentant sodomite.

  5. Anonymous, your last comment is pathetic. Please keep the gutter language, and lowest common denominator type of thought off the blog. This is not a trashy chat room. Please visit us again, if and when you are serious.

  6. I am serious George. Get a grip. This is a very slippery slope that you folks are walking with this particular post. When you start trying to legislate what happens in the bedroom between consenting adults then you've lost me, and I bet you've lost the audience that you folks were starting to build on this blog.

    The fact is that several of the founding fathers were indeed deists.

    Get off of the high horse. Don't think for a moment that the right in this country holds the moral high ground. We are called to be good stewards of God's creation. How can you support any conservative that does not support cleaning up the environemnt? All the global warming arguments aside, we have polluted the hell out of our country and that goes against God's will.

    The Bible as the literal word of God? Ok which story of creation in Genesis is the correct one? Which particular translation is the correct one? So if I chose to understand that there are inconsistencies /contradictions in the Bible. In fact, I see these and still believe. Does that make me less of a Christian? It might be the opposite because regardless of the obvious I still believe.

    While Dolley makes some relevant points, the fundemental condemning pablum it is encased in is frankly offsetting. Is Obama the Anti Christ? Really? He could be, but on what are you basing that? He is a pathetic leader and all of that, but the jury is out as to whether or not he is going to follow in Hitler's footsteps.

    Back away from the chasm and use a little "Audacity of Logic" in how you approach this.

  7. OK, I have to say that anonymous makes a few good points here folks. If we go to far in promoting our individual sect of Christianity and the beliefs thereof, then we are fully engaging in one of the Red Herring discussions I was so concerned about avoiding, and we have entered into emotional discourse versus the debate of logic we all strive for.

    I applaud Dolley's faith whole heartily and George my good friend we have had this kind of debate in other forums, and while we disagree on certain points of Christian dogma, I still count you as a great American and a close friend.

    I am in a way ashamed at how the traditional right political leaning members of our American Society have a history of abusing the natural resources God set out for us. For that reason alone I would say the post above is hitting home a little for me.

    There is a place for God and faith in political discourse. But we need to mindful of all Christian beliefs.

    Remember, if Mitt Romney had carried the South instead of McCain the Republicans would have had one heck of a better chance at defeating Obama in the last election.

    And why didn't he carry states like SC and GA? Because conservative Christians were more concerned with his Mormon Christian faith than they were his true family values, success at governing and record of great fiscal and moral leadership. Instead the chose McCain a RINO of questionable conservative street cred, and the same goes for Mike Huckaby.

    I'm just saying...

  8. Judeo-Christian values do not implicitly imply that the person holding them are Christian. They ar , afterall, good general moral rules to follow in a civilized nation. Therefore, we can debate the agnostic aspect, but they still founded a country based on Judeo-Christian values. I consider myself center/moderate, and I agree with Patrick (and anonymous) on many points. We do need to be careful to not fall into a trap of allowing ourselves to be incorrectly characterized based on our disapproval of Obama (i.e. planet polluter, homo-hater, or whatever else the left would throw our way). I do not think Obama is the anti-Christ, or Hitler reborn, but do worry where he will lead this country if allowed to follow his will freely. Thanks to all for a thoughtful debate. That is why we are here.

  9. I agree with Patrick and John about not falling into the trap of a Red Herring argument, however, there is a fine line between that and the reasons for this blog, which are discussion and discourse. It should be readily apparent that Dolley is fervent in her beliefs and is certainly within in her rights to express them. I do think that her inquiries were, however, rhetorical in nature, as anyone she was asking these questions of would never have been able to answer them in disagreement without being relegated to the group who needn’t have answered in the first place.

    I believe Anonymous may have been trying to entice my dear friend George into a Red Herring argument with the question about sodomy, however, I can’t say I agree that I found the question to be unsuitable for publication. If I were George, would I have answered the question? Probably not, as this is the kind of discourse that goes nowhere. Sodomy is defined in many ways, and by many institutions, both religious and secular. I highly doubt you will find much common ground in answering that question, even within these respective groupings.

    I agree with Patrick in that we should not be dismissive of any faith, including Christians who happen to vote for certain causes, not in tune with more conservative viewpoints. But, I also agree with George in his correct stance that this blog, which I created, with the input and help of my fellow founding fathers, does most certainly allow discourse on both religious and secular issues, and as George put forth so eloquently, on this blog, as with the formation of this country, “Faith and political issues are not mutually exclusive.”

  10. My apologies in advance, if my grammar and spelling are less than stellar, but I am ripping through this comment as fast as possible.

    Get a grip, slippery slope, high horse, legislate behavior in the bedroom, back away from the chasm, red herring, Judeo-Christian, Christian beliefs, Mitt Romney, anti-Christ, common ground. Wow! Cliche', common knowledge, and buzz word over load.

    A thoughtful, insightful and point by point response to this stream in general, and to anonymous in specific would take a fair amount of time, and some effort. Yes, I could go for the "win". However, even after producing a brilliant response filled with fact, a bibliography of those facts, and many eloquent words, I am confident that there would be no real shift in thinking.

    Our great nation faces great challenges, and I want to do my small part to help meet those challenges, so I have vowed to myself to invest my time and effort only to opportunities where real persuasion and difference making is possible. Therefore, I will not invest any more of my limited time on this stream.

    On a related note, I will no longer waste my vote on folks such as Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, John McCain, or Lindsey Graham. In 2008 I wrote in Ronald Reagan for president. Many will say I wasted my vote. However, I could not force myself to once again choose the (cliche') "lesser of two evils".

  11. Jumping in as the Devils Advocate and the author of the post, who actually understands the intent. If you read the post carefully, it is addressed to Evangelical Christians. I outline the conservative tenants of my faith and addresses the questions to those who hold the same beliefs. There is no judgment in the post, I am simply posing a series of questions to a group of believers. It is a valid blog.

    How is it different from a PETA blog member asking how her fellow members are having a Hamburger Fund Raiser? Or an Environmentalist asking why someone is changing their own oil and dumping it in a stream? What about an Orthodox Jew calling out his fellow believers for having a pulled pork BBQ.

  12. No judgment??? Wow, lady, you really don't get it do you? Let me quote you: "I am not talking to you Christians in name only (I know what you are all about and don't need you to explain how you do what you do.) I am talking to the true believers..."

    You just dismisssed a whole group of Christains who don't happen to agree with your point of view. Wake up and smell the predjudice.

  13. Anonymous: I think you're incorrect. Here's why:
    First, I know Dolley personally, and while we have our differences, I can tell you she's not prejudiced. Second, if you read her post again, you will see that she is talking to people who believe, what are fundamental tenants of Christianity. Anyone who doesn't agree with these fundamentals can call themselves Christians, but in reality are not. I believe that was the point Dolley was trying to make.

  14. Let me guess, she's your wife.

  15. Wrong again my friend- someone else retains that privilege.

  16. Ben, you prove the point. Dolley seems to be saying and you are confirming this, that basically all Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians,etc are not Christian. Not real Christians anyway. That sir is an insult to all "Non-Fundamental" Christians out here. This is the kind of divisiveness that will absolutely kill any chance the political conservative movement has.

    Look, hold to your beliefs, I'm very happy for that and i will not waste our time by pointing out what I see as hypocrisy. Nor will I make deriding comments like "where do you folks get your snakes for Sunday service?" That is not cool and as uncalled for as Dolley's slams.

    This kind of thing causes wars folks, and don't forget that when the Muslims ever complete their mission at wiping Christians and Jews alike off of the earth, they will absolutely return to killing each other over not believing in the same exact letter for letter brand of Islam.

    I can't believe that you can't see this.

  17. OK, admittedly, I'm not an expert on all Christian denominations, but I was a Catholic growing up and the fundamental tenants espoused by Dolley were what Catholics believe, to wit:

    " this I mean you accept the inerrancy of the Scriptures, you believe it is the literal word of God, you believe that the only way to the Father is through the Son, you believe that Jesus was an actual breathing man, incarnate of God, who was crucified for your sins, died and was buried and on the 3rd day rose again, you believe He is coming back again for his church. You have said the sinner's prayer and felt the Holy Spirit come to live inside you. You KNOW that Jesus is real because you feel him everyday."

    If I'm incorrect in this belief, please, someone enlighten me. As for the other denominations you cite, are you saying they don’t believe these same tenants?

  18. The sad part about this whole exchange is that no one really looked at the questions. No one examined the issues I set forth. Everyone got so hung up on who is a Christian and who isn't that nobody answered the questions. Perhaps that goes to my point though, perhaps we are so concerned putting labels on things and people we have truly lost sight of what make us who we are and what we truly believe.

    In Matthew Chapter 7, JESUS says this (not Dolley) 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

    True Disciples
    21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

    These are not my words. These are not the words of Paul, these are the words of Jesus and ANYONE who claims that title must take these words as truth. So look at your hearts, it's between you and God. Not me, I am frail and faulty and unworthy and unable to judge the hearts and salvation of any man. I would ask though, if you are disturbed by the tenants of faith I laid out above, why? Settle it with your maker. I am outta here.



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